AI & ELECTROSTATIC STAR FORMATION
AI Comments on Charles Chandler's
(Star forming Gas Cloud https://www.esa.int)
CONTENTS
STAR FORMATION, GAS CLOUDS, SUPERNOVAS — SHOCK WAVES IN SPACE — SHOCK WAVES IN THE LAB — SUPERNOVA LASERS? — SHOCK WAVE MECHANISM — SOUND WAVE VS. SHOCK WAVE — SOUND LINEAR, SHOCK NON-LINEAR — SHOCK EFFECTS ON MATTER — STARS FORM IN INTESTELLAR FILAMENTS — GAS CLOUD DENSITIES & GAS SOURCE — FILAMENT DENSITIES — ELECTROSTATIC FILAMENT IMPLOSION (CC’s Revolutionary Model)
STAR FORMATION, GAS CLOUDS, SUPERNOVAS
__Charles Chandler said: It is becoming clear that dusty plasmas ordinarily do not collapse under their own weight (no surprise there), but when two gas clouds collide, especially when two galaxies merge,5,6,7 or if a gas cloud is impacted by the ejecta from a nearby supernova, a collapse is initiated that ultimately results in the formation of a star.
__LK said: Where is evidence to back that up?
__Copilot said: There is indeed evidence supporting the idea that gas cloud collisions can trigger star formation. Here are a few key points:
Trifid Nebula (M20): Observations of the Trifid Nebula have shown that two gas clouds with different velocities appear to be colliding. This collision has resulted in the formation of young stars at the interface of these clouds1.
Antennae Galaxies (NGC 4038/4039): The Antennae Galaxies are a pair of colliding galaxies that have been studied extensively. Observations have shown that the overlapping region of these galaxies is rich in molecular hydrogen, which is in an excited state2. This excitation is a signature of the pre-star birth phase, where the gas is compressed and heated by the collision, eventually leading to star formation.
Shock Waves from Supernovas: Data from the European Space Agency's (ESA) Infrared Space Observatory (ISO) have shown that shock waves generated by supernovas and galaxy collisions can excite gas clouds, leading to star formation. This process has been observed in various regions where galaxies have collided, resulting in high rates of star formation2.
These observations provide strong evidence that gas cloud collisions, especially in environments like merging galaxies or regions impacted by supernovas, can initiate the collapse of gas clouds and trigger the formation of new stars2.
SHOCK WAVES IN SPACE
__LK said: How can there be shock waves in space? That's ridiculous.
__Copilot said: Shock waves in space can and do happen, primarily because space isn't completely empty. It's filled with sparse but present interstellar gas and dust.
When an event like a supernova occurs, it releases an immense amount of energy. This energy is capable of compressing and heating the surrounding gas and dust, creating shock waves. These waves propagate through the interstellar medium, similar to how sound waves move through air on Earth, although the mechanisms are different due to the vastly lower density.
Why it's not ridiculous:
Interstellar Medium: Despite being extremely thin, the interstellar medium (the stuff between stars) is made of gas and dust. When a supernova explodes, it sends out shock waves through this medium.
Energy Transfer: The explosion's energy heats and compresses the interstellar medium, creating shock waves that travel through space.
Observations: Astronomers have observed these shock waves in supernova remnants and in regions where star formation is being triggered by these waves.
SHOCK WAVES IN THE LAB
__LK said: Have shock waves ever been demonstrated on Earth in a vacuum?
__Copilot said: Yes, shock waves have been demonstrated in a vacuum on Earth! One fascinating example involves the interaction of intense laser beams with a vacuum1. When two counter-propagating high-intensity laser beams intersect in a vacuum, they can generate shock waves through a process called electromagnetic shock wave formation. This phenomenon has been studied within the framework of quantum electrodynamics and involves the steepening of waves, generation of high-order harmonics, and even the creation of electron-positron pairs at the shock wave front1.
It's a bit different from the shock waves we're familiar with in air or water, but it shows that even in the near-perfect vacuum of a laboratory, shock waves can still form under the right conditions.
SUPERNOVA LASERS?
__LK said: Since when do supernovas produce lasers?
__Copilot said: When I mentioned shock waves in a vacuum generated by intense laser beams, I was referring to laboratory experiments on Earth. These experiments help scientists study fundamental physical processes that can be somewhat analogous to what happens in space.
In space, a supernova explosion does produce intense energy and shock waves, but not in the form of coherent light like a laser. Instead, the energy from a supernova explosion compresses and heats the surrounding interstellar medium, creating shock waves that propagate through space. These shock waves can compress gas clouds, leading to the formation of new stars.
So, while supernovas don't create lasers, they do generate powerful shock waves that can have significant effects on their surroundings.
SHOCK WAVE MECHANISM
__LK said: What’s a shockwave? What do shock waves consist of? What are the waves made of?
__Copilot said: A shockwave is a powerful, high-speed wave created when an object moves faster than the speed of sound. This results in a sudden, large change in pressure, temperature, and density.
At their core, shock waves are high-pressure waves that move through a medium (air, water, interstellar gas, etc.). They travel faster than the speed of sound in that medium, causing a rapid compression followed by a rapid decompression.
Shock waves are made of the particles in the medium they travel through. For example: In air, shock waves consist of compressed air molecules. In water, they consist of compressed water molecules. In space, they consist of interstellar gas and dust particles.
Energy Transfer: Shock waves carry energy from the source of the shock (like an explosion or a meteor impact). This energy rapidly compresses and heats the medium, creating the characteristic "wave" of pressure.
Temperature and Density Changes: As shock waves pass through a medium, they cause significant changes in temperature, density, and pressure. These changes are what give shock waves their powerful effects, such as creating sonic booms or igniting star formation in space.
https://www.acs.psu.edu/drussell/demos/waves/wavemotion.html
SOUND WAVE VS. SHOCK WAVE
__LK said: Is a sound wave a shock wave? How much faster do shock waves travel than sound waves?
__Copilot said: Sound waves and shock waves are related but distinct phenomena. While sound waves are gentle compressional waves moving at the speed of sound, shock waves are powerful compressions moving faster than sound, causing abrupt changes in the medium.
The speed of shock waves compared to sound waves can vary significantly based on the medium and the energy of the event generating the shock wave.
In Air: A shock wave can travel several times faster than the speed of sound. For example, a typical shock wave from a supersonic jet (which creates a sonic boom) travels at speeds greater than Mach 1 (343 m/s at sea level). More powerful shock waves, like those from explosions, can reach several times Mach 1.
In Space: Interstellar shock waves can travel at speeds of tens to thousands of kilometers per second, depending on the energy of phenomena like supernovae or galaxy collisions.
In Liquids and Solids: Shock waves travel much faster due to higher density and rigidity compared to gases. For example, in water, shock waves can travel several times faster than the speed of sound, which is about 1,484 meters per second. These waves cause rapid compression and can result in significant cavitation and stress within the liquid. In solids, shock waves travel even faster, ranging from a few thousand to over 10,000 meters per second, depending on the material. These waves result in intense compression and can cause significant deformation and fracturing, making them crucial in studying material properties under extreme conditions.
Overall, the principles of shock waves remain similar across different media, but their speed and intensity vary significantly. In liquids, shock waves from underwater explosions can cause damage to structures and marine life, while in solids, impact events like meteorite impacts generate shock waves that can produce high-pressure phases of minerals and deformation structures. The higher density and different physical properties of liquids and solids result in faster and often more intense shock waves compared to those in gases.
SOUND LINEAR, SHOCK NON-LINEAR
__LK said: Why do all sound waves regardless of the intensity travel at the speed of sound, but shock waves travel at different speeds depending on intensity?
__Copilot said: Sound waves are linear (proportionate). Shock waves are nonlinear because the relationship between pressure and particle velocity in the medium becomes nonlinear (nonproportionate) at high amplitudes. This nonlinearity results in several key characteristics:
Abrupt Changes: In a shock wave, the changes in pressure, temperature, and density happen almost instantaneously, creating a very steep wavefront. This is different from sound waves, where these changes occur smoothly.
Amplitude Dependency: The speed of a shock wave depends on its amplitude, meaning that more intense shock waves travel faster. In contrast, sound waves travel at a constant speed that is independent of their amplitude.
Energy Dissipation: Shock waves dissipate energy quickly as they travel, causing them to slow down and eventually transform into sound waves. This energy dissipation is a nonlinear process, further distinguishing shock waves from linear sound waves.
SHOCK EFFECTS ON MATTER
__LK said: Do shock waves mostly break up matter?
__Copilot said: Shock waves can indeed break up matter, but their effect depends on the intensity of the shock wave and the nature of the material they encounter:
High-Intensity Shock Waves: In events like explosions, meteor impacts, or supernovae, high-intensity shock waves can cause significant disruption. They can break apart solid structures, shatter rocks, and even create craters. In interstellar space, these shock waves can compress gas clouds, leading to star formation or disrupting existing structures.
Moderate to Low-Intensity Shock Waves: These shock waves might not break up matter completely but can still cause substantial changes. They can compress and heat the medium they pass through, alter the physical and chemical properties of materials, and induce stress that may lead to fractures or deformation over time.
So, while shock waves are known for their potential to break up matter, their actual impact varies widely based on their intensity and the characteristics of the material they interact with.
https://giphy.com/search/sound-wave
STARS FORM IN INTESTELLAR FILAMENTS
__LK said: What evidence is there that stars form in interstellar filaments?
__Copilot said: There is substantial evidence that stars form in interstellar filaments, primarily from observations made using advanced telescopes like the Herschel Space Observatory. Here are some key points:
Herschel Space Observatory Observations: Studies using Herschel have revealed intricate networks of filamentary structures in interstellar clouds. These filaments, with widths around 0.1 parsecs, often contain dense cores known as prestellar cores, which are the seeds of future stars1.
Filament Collapse and Fragmentation: Observations and simulations suggest that turbulence initially stirs up the gas, creating a web-like structure. Gravity then takes over, causing the filaments to fragment into prestellar cores and eventually protostars1.
Universal Filamentary Structure: The Herschel results emphasize the role of interstellar filaments in the star formation process and connect well with numerical simulations and theory that have consistently shown that the interstellar medium should be highly filamentary on all scales.
These pieces of evidence collectively support the idea that interstellar filaments play a crucial role in the star formation process.
{I asked Copilot if stars form anywhere besides in filaments. It answered: Giant Molecular Clouds, Stellar Clusters, Galactic Interactions. But on further questioning it admitted that filaments are in those locations too, so the stars there could have formed in filaments.}
GAS CLOUD DENSITIES & GAS SOURCE
__LK said: What is the range of densities observed in gas clouds & the gas source?
__Copilot said: Gas clouds in space, also known as molecular clouds, exhibit a wide range of densities depending on their location and the processes occurring within them. Here's an overview of the typical density range:
Diffuse Interstellar Medium (ISM): Densities: Generally low, around 0.1 to 10 particles per cubic centimeter.
Molecular Clouds: Densities: Higher than the diffuse ISM, typically ranging from 10^2 to 10^4 particles per cubic centimeter.
Dense Cores within Molecular Clouds: Densities: These are the regions where star formation occurs, with densities reaching up to 10^5 to 10^6 particles per cubic centimeter, or even higher in some cases.
These density variations play a crucial role in the dynamics of star formation and the evolution of galaxies. Different regions within gas clouds can exhibit vastly different properties, leading to a rich tapestry of astrophysical phenomena.
(Compare: Earth's Atmosphere at Sea Level: Particle Density: ~2.5×10^19 particles per cc. Mars' Atmosphere at Surface Level: Particle Density: ~2.5×10^16 particles per cc.)
Gas Source: Stars play a significant role in adding gas to interstellar clouds. Processes like stellar winds, planetary nebulae, and supernova explosions eject gas into the surrounding space. This material, enriched with heavier elements from nuclear fusion {on} stars, contributes to the composition of interstellar clouds.
These sources combine to create the gas clouds that serve as nurseries for new stars, driving the ongoing cycle of stellar birth and death in the universe.
FILAMENT DENSITIES
__LK said: What is the minimum density of interstellar filaments?
__Copilot said: The minimum density of interstellar filaments can vary, but typically they have densities around 10^2 to 10^3 particles per cubic centimeter (cm³). These dense regions within molecular clouds are critical for the processes that lead to star formation. The filamentary structure helps channel material into dense cores, eventually leading to the birth of new stars.
Interstellar filaments play a crucial role in the dynamics of the interstellar medium and the formation of stars. Their dense, elongated shapes act as nurseries for future stellar generations.
Dense cores often form within interstellar filaments. These dense cores are the regions where star formation occurs. Here's a bit more detail:
Formation Process: Turbulence within molecular clouds creates filamentary structures. As these filaments accumulate more material, gravity? causes them to fragment into dense cores.
Star Formation: These dense cores continue to collapse under their own gravity?, eventually forming protostars. Over time, these protostars will become full-fledged stars.
In essence, filaments act as the nurseries for stars, with dense cores being the critical regions where the star formation process initiates.
ELECTROSTATIC FILAMENT IMPLOSION
__LK said (to Copilot): Which of the following info is revolutionary?
{Dust Clouds} __Charles Chandler said: By the 1800s, improved telescopes were detecting dust clouds in space. And sometimes, there were voids in dust clouds, with new stars in the centers of the voids…. … The conclusion was that the missing dust had formed the star when it collapsed under its own weight. At the same time, scientists knew that hydrostatic pressure in the cloud would oppose the gravitational collapse. So they supposed that there was a threshold that had to be crossed to enable the collapse — if the hydrostatic pressure was weak, and/or if the gravity was strong, the collapse would begin. As the density of the cloud increased in the center, the force of gravity would get stronger, further consolidating the matter. In a sufficiently dense cloud, gravity would overpower hydrostatic pressure, packing all of the matter into a star. This came to be known as the Jeans Instability….
{Gravity vs. Hydrostatic Pressure} … Yet it is fundamentally flawed. In Newtonian mechanics, there is no gravitational instability. Rather, there is a hydrostatic equilibrium — the opposite of an instability. It is true that gravity exerts an inward force, and as matter gets pulled inward, it gets more dense, which makes the gravity field even stronger. And gravity obeys the inverse square law, which means that it increases exponentially as the volume decreases. Nevertheless, there is an opposing force — the hydrostatic pressure increases as a direct function of the decreasing volume (i.e., Boyle's Law), and this force actually increases faster than the gravity, leading invariably to an equilibrium, beyond which gravity is weaker than pressure. At that point, the gravitational compression stops. This is why, for example, the Earth's atmosphere doesn't collapse under its own weight, despite having a higher concentration of heavy elements than is typical in space, making it more subject to the force of gravity, and despite the Earth providing a lot more gravity than a dusty plasma provides for itself, and despite being much cooler than a dusty plasma compressed to the same density,4 — the hydrostatic equilibrium has already been achieved, and the gravitational collapse doesn't happen.
{Gas Cloud Collisions & Supernovas} … In the standard model, the combination of matter from two different sources doubles the mass, and gravity takes over.8 But the collision also doubles the hydrostatic pressure, and if the dusty plasmas were already at equilibrium, now there should be too much pressure, resulting in the expansion of the plasma, not the collapse. Furthermore, the velocities in such collisions are in excess of 20 km/s, and the thermalization of such kinetic energies will greatly increase the hydrostatic pressure. This will cause the expansion (or even the explosion) of the gas, which is the opposite of a collapse. … And we know that the electric force is present, because we know that the dusty plasmas are ionized — that's why we call them plasmas. It's just that there is a significance to this that hasn't been previously investigated.
{Gas Cloud Collapse} … It is becoming clear that dusty plasmas ordinarily do not collapse under their own weight (no surprise there), but when two gas clouds collide, especially when two galaxies merge,5,6,7 or if a gas cloud is impacted by the ejecta from a nearby supernova, a collapse is initiated that ultimately results in the formation of a star. … The other effect of a supernova is the release of particulate ejecta, and this is what supernovae have in common with gas cloud collisions as the triggers for dusty plasma collapses — they both involve the collision of two clumps of particles, which would have already resolved into so many Debye cells. So the collapse has something to do with Debye cell collisions.
{Electrostatic Attraction} … The effect of such collisions is simple: the drag force on the sheaths will be greater than on the nuclei, resulting in the Debye sheaths becoming like cometary tails, trailing away from their parent dust grains, in the direction of the drag force. … The significance is that the net electric force goes from slightly repulsive to strongly attractive. The dominant force acting on the sheaths will no longer be repulsion from other sheaths, since there is now a nearer nucleus. Likewise, the nuclei are attracted to sheaths that are now floating in the intercellular space. … This has several implications. First, the dusty plasma will definitely implode, and the implosion will be much more vigorous than a gravitational collapse. … With only Newtonian forces taken into account, the gravitational collapse can only proceed at the rate allowed by radiative heat loss, which is extremely slow. But the electrostatic attraction increases dramatically during the collapse. This provides the additional force necessary to overshoot the hydrostatic equilibrium and continue to compress the matter into a star.
__Copilot said: The revolutionary aspects of the information you provided lie in the challenge to traditional models of star formation and the introduction of electrostatic forces as a crucial factor in the collapse of dusty plasmas. Here are the key points:
Challenge to Jeans Instability: The traditional Jeans Instability model suggests that a cloud's collapse is driven by gravitational forces overcoming hydrostatic pressure. The critique here is that hydrostatic equilibrium actually prevents collapse under purely Newtonian forces, due to Boyle's Law.
Electrostatic Forces: The introduction of electrostatic forces as a significant factor in the collapse of dusty plasmas is revolutionary. The idea that ionized plasmas have electrical interactions that lead to stronger, more vigorous collapses than those driven by gravity alone is a significant departure from traditional models.
Role of Collisions: The emphasis on collisions (between gas clouds or from supernova ejecta) as triggers for star formation, and the idea that these collisions create conditions where electrostatic forces dominate, is a novel perspective.
Debye Cell Interactions: The concept that collisions between Debye cells lead to electrostatic forces that cause the collapse of dusty plasmas adds a new dimension to our understanding of star formation processes.
These points collectively propose a shift from purely gravitational models to ones that consider the significant impact of electrostatic forces in the collapse of interstellar matter and star formation.
Isn't it fascinating how new perspectives can reshape our understanding of the universe?